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all right, welcome back everybody to the secret sauce podcast.
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I'm chad trees here with my amazing host, as always, lacy moores, and we're super excited today because we're joined by a realtor, extraordinaire team leader, business coach.
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We've heard her speak multiple times.
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She's just amazing.
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Not in our market, so not to hopefully step on anybody's toes, we're in Kansas City and Marjorie, without further ado, let's introduce Marjorie, adam and you're East Coast.
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Yes, no, worries everyone, I'm in Charlottesville Virginia.
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Nobody else listening is from Charlottesville Virginia right now mostly.
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Yeah, but you get it and you coach realtors all over the country.
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You've got a history in coaching for years and years and years, right, and so, yeah, we want to dive in on some stuff today.
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Like I said, lacey, and I have heard you speak multiple times now and you always bring it and, um, yeah, we thought what better way than to bring you on and, uh, learn a little bit about your secret sauce?
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Um, a lot of what you've been talking about lately has been the whole NAR settlement, which is, you know, um relevant, but, um, we can talk about that a little bit, but maybe not get too far in the weeds on it.
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Lacey, where do you think we should start?
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We've been talking about this.
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Where do you want to start?
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Well, marjorie, will you just give everybody a little rundown about you've been a coach, like Chad said, forever, but tell us a little bit about that and what's really been your biggest, how long you've been in the business and kind of where your business changed the most.
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Yeah, so I'm.
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Thank you so much.
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So I'm a realtor in Charlottesville, Virginia.
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I have a very small team, three people in me.
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I've been a realtor for 28 years.
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I got into real estate because mom was a realtor and, ironically, I thought I'll never be a realtor because mom was a realtor and then I went into business with her.
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I now work with my brother, so very family, oriented, family business.
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I think I've watched.
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Look, I've been through all the markets.
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I started right 28 years ago and rates were.
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I got my first mortgage was 8% for an FHA and I was stressed out for my $118,000 townhouse that doesn't exist anymore and really have seen all the markets right.
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I lived through very painfully the 2007 and on market and certainly was really prepared for this shift, which I think you know.
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The settlements are probably one of the biggest shifts we've seen on our side of the business ever, maybe in terms of since buyer agency started in the 1990s.
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I think this is a massive opportunity and I think too many people are.
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We were joking, lacey.
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We were joking about reading the book who Moved my Cheese.
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Read it, but your cheese has been moved.
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Just so you know, your cheese started moving about a year ago.
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If you're a realtor, your cheese is fully gone now.
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So I think you need to adapt and just you listen.
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If you're still stuck, the time is gone.
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I think anyone who says they're not going to evolve, you better be reading the news.
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You watch the attorney who is the big sits or banana attorney.
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If you pay attention, and you, if you're a realtor and you're not looking at Inman and all the news sources, you're missing out.
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And they are watching you and they big brother is here, right, doj and the attorneys.
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You think they made hundreds of millions and they're done.
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They're not.
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So they are literally watching.
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What do our forms look like?
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Are we implementing?
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Are you getting your buyer agency agreement signed?
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So, are you creating workaround websites?
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Are you just not going to shift compensation and how it's done?
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And so I think the people have spent a year thinking, oh, it'll never happen.
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Now it's happened and we just I think the people have spent a year thinking, oh, it'll never happen.
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Now it's happened and we just need to roll with it.
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It is here and it's going to be the future and we have to, you know, adapt to it and work through it.
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Yeah, right, right on, go ahead, lacey.
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Well, so one of the things that you were speaking, you just spoke at our event.
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And you know, one of the things that really resounded with me is you said that so many people are going to be running towards listings and you said you're goingman conference in New York in February.
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I just got back from a conference that was less industry specific, but I think we go to the industry conferences that are really important, but we don't innovate or evolve in one.
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We just sort of group think, which is good, but it puts us in the herd and I think right now, if you listen to the news and what everyone's saying, it's the herd.
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Mentality right now is oh boy, how am I going to get paid for working with buyers which I think is ironic, because you're going to get paid pretty much like you always did but how is that going to work?
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So you know what we're all going to focus on listings.
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And don't get me wrong in real estate listers last, you want listings.
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It doesn't mean I will be just throwing my listings away, but I want everyone to think about this.
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If everyone in the industry, if all the realtors that make it all say I've got to focus on listings, one, that means a whole lot of people going after one smaller segment of the market until the market changes, which also means much more competition, which will result in prices.
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Right, if everyone needs a listing, the commissions will go down.
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And so to me it's like okay, if the whole herd says I'm going to ignore these buyers, I am going to go anti-herd and I'm going to go hard on buyer specialization and taking better care and offering more service to buyers, because why would I want to chase after the smallest piece of pie?
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Yeah, I love it.
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Yeah, I mean I think, on that note, you know buyers are.
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What we've all been hearing is that to work with buyers, you've got to have a super defined value proposition.
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Right, you've got to be unique, you've got to be able to speak to your value, and I think that's where people are struggling.
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A lot of realtors are struggling right now as they've been hammered that message home and maybe they're going to work with sellers because you don't necessarily need to have as defined of a value proposition or be as unique.
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What do you think about that?
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That is great.
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Here's the thing again.
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So we're you know already the market has changed.
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We have fewer sales, so they're saying there'll be about 4 million nationally sales this year.
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Fewer sales so they're saying there'll be about 4 million nationally sales this year.
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They're projecting that again next year.
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So if everyone's waiting for next year for many more sales, I think you're going to keep waiting.
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So if we look at that, the piece of the pie is smaller.
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And also think about you.
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Don't think the sellers are also saying hey, these lawsuits are all about, by the way, how I was paying you and the other realtor a lot of money and now I don't have to and, by the way, I don't have to pay you that and what are you doing for your money?
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And the biggest issue is, as I travel across the country and teach and speak and learn from realtors because I'm a journal student, I have a lot to learn.
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So let's be clear.
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I've just paid a lot of attention to this I hear oh, I get 3%, I'm just going to get 3%.
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Dream on pumpkin.
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Because if your entire market is now working on a segment of listings and everyone else says I'll do it for less, and if discount models grow more and more.
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If you don't evolve your services up, you have no option but to discount.
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If you don't have more services, you discount.
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If you don't differentiate, you discount.
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Now let's be clear If your model becomes to discount, have at it.
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That is your model and there's an audience for it.
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It's just not my model.
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So I have to say, to work with me, you're going to get this elevated level of service for my sellers as well as my buyers, right?
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So for both segments.
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They hire us to solve a problem and save them time, right.
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Their problem is they have to buy or sell a house.
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The problem also is they have full-time jobs and kids and lives and stress and take care of parents and you know there's all these other things and they want the details done and they want a great, seamless experience and they want services that are going to make their lives easier.
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That's our job, right?
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So to me, if you think I'll just go, like if the herd says I'm just gonna go, I'll go work with listings because it's going to be easier, it's not because there are companies that'll do it for 500 bucks.
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Yeah, right, and they're always have right.
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I can just put a sign in the yard.
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That's the thing, right?
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That cracks me up unless, yeah, yeah, just put it on mls, right?
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So it's like we can't.
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We can't just say I do this.
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And, and the problem too is, if you take a room and this is not disrespectful, so I'm not above anyone, let's be clear, but I do this a lot If you go into a room with a large pool of realtors and you say what's your differentiator?
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What do you specialize in?
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Everyone says negotiation, marketing, pricing, right, like communication, which is comical because, let's face it, some of the communication not so good.
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But if everyone specializes in negotiation, no one does.
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If everyone specializes in listings, no one does.
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So what's your niche?
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What do you offer above and over?
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Like you can't I take pictures?
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Great, I'm sorry.
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It's just like you guys saying we'll call you back, awesome, we'll close on time.
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That's your job, right?
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That's not a differentiator.
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So now is the time that we get to either discount or elevate, right?
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It's both ways or options.
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Yeah, totally, and there will be a race to the bottom of people that are trying to do it for for a lot less, because they can't figure out how to differentiate, how to elevate, and so there will definitely be that, which will just mean that you got to elevate even more, because you got to make sure that you create the separation between the low cost providers and people that are that are still trying to make a living doing this and not slashing their costs, right?
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Well, again, I mean it's okay, like, listen, I'm a strong believer.
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If someone calls me and says, hey, I, um, I'm going to for sale by owner of my house because I don't feel that I need a realtor, nor do I see the value in one, cool, right, like, you're right.
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And then someone else says I'm going to hire a realtor and I'm only going to pay them one chicken, whatever, right, like, I'm going to pay this discount price because I don't feel the value is there.
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Okay, you're right.
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And then my client will say, okay, because of the services and the 28 years of experience and growing up in the market and knowing the knowledge and your house prep and the providers that you give us and the cleaning of the house that you do and the pre-listing inspection and the over and above whether it be the documents in the house or the systems that we provide to approve pricing, anything that we do that's got value will want me as their realtor.
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If it has no value to them, they should go to the discount realtor.
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Right, and that's cool.
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So I think I'm not trying to convince everyone.
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They're my client.
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I think the mistake is not everyone is.
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I am not everyone's cup of tea, but I just proved this painfully.
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Um on a two million dollar listing today that someone said I have five prices.
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Hurry up and get in this house.
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I need yours, nope yeah, we feel that, yeah, we get that.
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And, and Lacey and I would definitely agree that, like everybody's not our client, right?
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Like if somebody is just hey, here's five estimates and I'm just looking at which one's going to be the cheapest and they're not going to listen to anything else, then I'll be like, hey, here's another name you should call somebody working out of their basement on the internet, you know, and that's probably who you should talk to.
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That's someone's right, like I think we get mad.
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I didn't get mad, I mean, I just said, hey, you have four right prices and, in theory, market analysis probably not, but market analysis and plans from four, I would guess, referred pretty reputable realtors.
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That's the only thing I can assume.
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My fifth one is not going to help unless you can tell me that the four you have did not offer you, so there's something missing.
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Was their marketing plan not good?
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Was their pricing system not good?
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Did they not have the construction people in that, because the house needs work?
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Was there nothing there that was?
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Provided you the clarity to move forward with four people?
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That my fifth estimate is going to be what moves the needle, because let's talk about that and guess what the response was Cool, thanks Bye.
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Right, no, it was.
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I want five prices.
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I'll pick either the number I want, the person I can boss around the cheapest.
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I'm none of those three right.
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So to me we can decide our time is valuable or the.
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The time I have to spend this week is on my three sellers that I'm literally having their houses painted and rotten wood replaced and rebuilding their steps and giving them the value, and all my contractors and picking out their flooring for them.
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Yes, we do all that, like I pick out the floor, I go and make sure the fireplace is correct, I go and make sure my contractors show up.
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That's our job, right, I have time for that because that's my client.
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So I think, as we evolve, because that's my client, so I think as we evolve, you know we can't be a, you know, a specialist in everything, right, and so to me that's the biggest clarity.
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I think, and maybe I'm why I'm in such a good place.
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I'm in a great place.
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Now, let's be clear.
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It is Getting less money.
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Yes, have I worked three times as hard this year?
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Yes, I have.
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But am I much clearer and have a lot of things?
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I'm excited that we're doing systems, that we're growing services, that we're offering to our clients for, like, highest level experience.
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Yes, because that's the route, that's my road, like that's my lane I'm taking.
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Right, and I think if, if everyone is like on the, you know you go to Texas and there's I'm in Virginia, we're not very big.
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You know the eight lane highway.
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If you're on all eight lanes of a highway and these are all your clients, you're in big trouble.
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Right, like what's your lane on your highway, that is yours, and again.
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God love you.
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If it's, I'm going to do it for a thousand bucks.
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Do it If price is only an issue in the absence of value, Right?
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So if you've got an absence of value, price is all that matters.
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That's all you have to offer.
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But we also know too, chad I mean on our end the race to the bottom doesn't end well, right, and we've been up against people racing to the bottom for the last few years.
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And we've been up against people racing to the bottom for the last few years and most of those companies don't even exist anymore, Because so they will and it will be a process, but they will get themselves out because there's only like you still have to make income, you know.
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So the racing to the bottom and taking on more work and not like it doesn't end well, so it's just a process.
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You know that we, that we have to go through, but I do think that this is going to bring out the best of the best, for sure, and I do think that people will really see what that value looks like.
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Because, to be honest, have we had to have a whole lot of value on the real estate side over the last couple years when, when it was so busy, like you, just had to be able to put a sign in the yard and open a door, and not always, I don't, I don't mean that so rudely, but not always.
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But now is that time and it's going to be exciting to see the people who do step up and shine and I I love seeing your enthusiasm for what you know.
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What we've been talking about a lot Chad is is that growth mindset right Is where we see, where social people see gloom and doom and and when the people who find the opportunity it's it's it's inspiring.
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But that's the time, right.
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I mean, if you look at this like, if you're not doubling down on, I mean I'm going to more conferences, not less.
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I'm reading, I'm subscribing to Inman and Housing Wire and listening to so many podcasts I've read I don't even can't tell you I'm a speed reader, to be fair but probably in the last four months I've read 25 books, right, I mean I'm just absorbing as much information to implement what I can and looking and saying, okay, when do businesses grow Like?
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When does?
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When do things change?
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When, when there's a massive disruption?
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And we have a massive disruption right now, which gives us an opportunity to prove our value, or we can't, and then we have a problem.
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So I think that if people were looking at this and I don't care what your industry is right now, but we're obviously talking to lenders and realtors if you think, okay, how do I decommoditize my profession?
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Like we can't be much more commoditized, greatest irony ever and why nobody talks about this.
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So the attorneys that were doing the suing, that are saying we're watching you because we're going to sue everybody who made 40% as a fixed fee of the class action suit.
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So literally go on their website and it says we charge 40% basically, which is the most fixed fee ever.
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But they are really all over those realtors charging 6%.
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I just can't get over the fact that no one seems to understand to me this great irony.
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And they're going hey, we made a lot of money, don't you worry, we're watching out for you to make more money.
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And I'm thinking okay, all right.
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Well, especially because they justified the 40% fee because that if they didn't win they wouldn't get paid, that they could do a whole lot of work and maybe not get paid.
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Does that sound familiar to either?
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Exactly Like.
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Again.
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There are times like I mean I might list a house and three days later it sells.
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But, by the way, it's also sort of like I've been in business 28 years and everyone's like, oh, you have this great.
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You know, I've learned for 28 years and I'm learning harder now.
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But you understand, when I put the sign in the yard which again is all we do, right, we put, I drive around all day.
00:17:31.261 --> 00:17:32.285
I'm exhausted.
00:17:32.305 --> 00:17:33.346
Lacey said it, not me.
00:17:33.566 --> 00:17:37.109
I didn't say it, but if you think about it, let's.
00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:37.570
Really.
00:17:37.570 --> 00:17:43.936
The sign in the yard could have been one year and often for us is six months of the first meeting and we got a stage.
00:17:43.936 --> 00:17:54.991
We got a paint Like right now we're doing literally all the flooring, all the landscaping rotten siding, the HVAC is sideways, I've got yellow jackets in the yard.
00:17:54.991 --> 00:17:55.855
I've had to redo all the landscaping.
00:17:55.855 --> 00:17:56.659
So we've had to hire all these people.
00:17:56.659 --> 00:18:03.657
It's been months literally picking out the light fixtures at Lowe's that we are going to pick up to deliver to the contractor on Monday.
00:18:04.164 --> 00:18:06.434
This is a house, by the way, that's $350,000.
00:18:06.434 --> 00:18:07.519
Now, I'm not saying that's not.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.329
This isn't just a $2 million house for all houses.
00:18:10.329 --> 00:18:26.238
So when you see it, go on the in the you know market and, yes, the sign goes in the yard, people are like, well, they put a sign in the yard, uh-huh, and I've had hundreds of conversations, met many contractors gone through, some that didn't show up, everything someone struggles with to put the sign in the yard.
00:18:26.238 --> 00:18:34.877
So that's my value right Now that house will sell for that, versus 70,000 less because of the work we did to prep the house.
00:18:35.345 --> 00:18:36.587
So again, what's my value?
00:18:36.587 --> 00:18:39.676
If my value to you the consumer is the sign in the yard.
00:18:39.676 --> 00:18:58.048
That's a problem, right, but let's take some ownership, because if the realtors don't sit back and say, hey, let's be honest, if we all use the recommended buyer agency agreement that have been around for years, which our area required, my office you don't get paid without one, so we've used one for years.
00:18:58.048 --> 00:19:09.405
If we had taken that as seriously as a listing right when in the listing agreement, if we hadn't just walked in and look, this isn't everyone, but if anyone says this isn't the case in some areas, it's false.
00:19:09.787 --> 00:19:17.132
If I didn't just walk into Lacey, your house, and say, oops, 6%, I'm sorry, you have to pay that, my brokerage requires it, the market, you know you have no choice.
00:19:17.132 --> 00:19:18.354
I can't negotiate it.
00:19:18.354 --> 00:19:22.461
If it was a fixed sign here and, by the way, buyers, I'm free.
00:19:22.461 --> 00:19:24.926
And then I show you houses and then they went to closing and went.
00:19:24.926 --> 00:19:26.670
You made what that's on us.
00:19:26.670 --> 00:19:33.172
That's on us for lack of clarity and lack of treating the buyer side like we did the seller side.
00:19:33.172 --> 00:19:33.692
I'm sorry.
00:19:33.692 --> 00:19:42.169
No one I've ever seen didn't do at least a listing presentation where they got a listing agreement signed that laid out the price and God hope the process.
00:19:42.169 --> 00:19:48.070
But for buyers it was wild West right, like pick you up here or whatever.
00:19:48.070 --> 00:19:50.718
That's my buyer, not really my buyer, like no explanation.
00:19:51.085 --> 00:19:52.651
So and don't worry, I'm free to you.
00:19:52.651 --> 00:19:54.498
That was great yeah.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:56.846
Yeah, so that's the problem, right?
00:19:56.846 --> 00:20:12.757
So I think, if we own it and move forward from it instead of trying to work around it cause now people are like, oh, I'm going to put it on this website and I'm going to put 3% on a key chain and I'm like my God, just consultations explained to the seller, this is my fee, what I earned.
00:20:12.757 --> 00:20:14.586
Here's the structure of what I'm going to recommend.
00:20:14.586 --> 00:20:16.252
Here's what I expect You're going to be asked for.
00:20:16.333 --> 00:20:22.740
Let's run net sheets, assuming let's talk about your, what you're willing to do, based on an acceptable offer and buyers.
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.508
Hey, for all of these services, this is what I charge.
00:20:25.508 --> 00:20:27.073
By the way, we're going to get into this.